ignition switch question...

oldschool101 · Post by **oldschool101** » Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:07 pm

Does anyone know.... how to troubleshoot the ignition switch to make sure it is working right or how to bypass it all together.. not sure why I can't get the bike started...

thanks!!

Buckets81 · Post by **Buckets81** » Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:16 pm

I found this thread helpful. It is for the CA77 which has the same switch as our bikes.

http://www.honda305.com/forums/1965-ca7 ... t6331.html

Spokes · Post by **Spokes** » Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:16 pm

The ignition switches for the CA95 & 160's are almost bomb proof. Unless the back is broken or someone opened it up it should be OK.

Turn the ignition switch to the "on" position. With a continuity light, check the wire that goes to the points. The light should illuminate. If not then you have a break in a wire somewhere.

If you hot wire the ignition and keep the coil energized you run the risk of burning up the coil.

Jetblackchemist · Post by **Jetblackchemist** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 2:39 am

It's also helpful to know the switch positions for running, 1 click up from when you first insert the key, will turn the bike over with no lights etc.(day light driving) 2nd click up, full lights etc. 3rd position up parking light(the tail light will stay lit) 1st click down after inserting the key(some one correct me if my memory is off) allows the starter to spin, for pumping and circulating fluids but will not send fire to the coils.

So really only the 1st and 2nd clicks up from when you first insert the key are needed. The other two won't start anything...the tail light one will just run your battery down, and the 1st click down will just make you wonder why your bike will turn over but not start.

ByTheLake · Post by **ByTheLake** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:36 am

I've long wondered why the ignition switch is as complicated as it is. It's over-engineered, like the petcock.

Does this imply that the alternator provides charging only in position III, when the headlights are on?

So, position I is "preparation for starting", letting the rider crank the engine but not start it? Is that to build oil pressure? I wonder how many people actually use position I?

It's funny how the Honda manual uses the words "Can" and "No" to say whether the key can be removed in each position.

Puzzleparadise · Post by **Puzzleparadise** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:29 am

ByTheLake wrote:
Does this imply that the alternator provides charging only in position III, when the headlights are on?

I've often wondered about this as well, it does appear to charge the battery in the position without the lights running, at least mine does...

comp_wiz101 · Post by **comp_wiz101** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:48 pm

ByTheLake wrote:[...]

Does this imply that the alternator provides charging only in position III, when the headlights are on?

So, position I is "preparation for starting", letting the rider crank the engine but not start it? Is that to build oil pressure? I wonder how many people actually use position I?

[...]

Position I is for cold starting, letting a little fuel get drawn in without firing. I've used it if the bike has sat longer than a week. Close choke, turn over twice, open choke, turn on ignition coil, start.

According to the wiring diagram and the service manual: "When lights are turned on, all coils are used, but for daytime running only a portion of
the coils are utilized"

Basically, the 3 sets of windings operate as such: 1 set of windings powers the rectifier constantly, and the 2 others are added in parallel when the headlight is running. This is to keep the battery from overcharging without the headlight load. It's also why you shouldn't ride the bike in the headlamp position with the bulb burned out.

It's little tricks like this that helped Honda avoid using a regulator. 12V conversions of similar British bikes often have these windings all combined, since they run into a regulator to take care of it.

oldschool101 · Post by **oldschool101** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:49 pm

Great Info everyone. So I should be able to start the bike even if the battery is dead (but still connected) by turning the key to position 3 correct?

oldschool101 · Post by **oldschool101** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:50 pm

Thanks fo rthe diagram etc!!

comp_wiz101 · Post by **comp_wiz101** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:57 pm

oldschool101 wrote:Great Info everyone. So I should be able to start the bike even if the battery is dead (but still connected) by turning the key to position 3 correct?

You'll need the battery to be charged for it to run well. These bikes can get picky about starting with even an iffy-charge battery. With a dead battery, most of the current will end up towards the battery instead of the ignition coil.

Otherwise, most of the Dynamo's power will be going into charging the battery. You have to be going 1000 RPM both cover the ignition needs and provide 1A charging current. If you have the headlamp on, you're using more current than the bike produces if you go slower than ~25mph.

If these bikes had Magneto ignition, it'd be more likely, but with a dead battery it would be tough.

Still, I never have tried with a flat battery. Anyone else here tried that?

Buckets81 · Post by **Buckets81** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:52 pm

It will run fine with a nearly dead battery as long as there is no other draw on the system. (lights, etc. ) With a completely dead battery it won't idle but will put enough charge into the battery if you roll start it and ride around for a few minutes.

oldschool101 · Post by **oldschool101** » Wed Jul 11, 2012 3:06 pm

so it will start if push started even if the battery is dead. ? good to know ...

Buckets81 · Post by **Buckets81** » Wed Jul 11, 2012 3:44 pm

It will but it isn't a good thing to do on a regular basis.

oldschool101 · Post by **oldschool101** » Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:52 pm

right... thanks everyone...