Running without a starter?

Rocketsled · Post by **Rocketsled** » Sun Jun 23, 2013 6:43 am

The motor's about 90% parts complete and together. One of the items I've been putting off (as there was other, more fun, stuff to do) was restoring the starter.

The planetary transmission and physical aspects are pretty well cleaned up, but the brushes or insulators around the brushes aren't up to snuff. There's a lot of ozone and arcing and unhappyness.

So: question 1: Can I reassemble and run the motor without the starter, or will it start puking out oil?

question 2: There are a couple of starters on ebay, but I'd kinda like to restore this one...are there rebuild kits that contain more than just the brushes? I think my problem is bigger than that...there was plenty of meat on the brushes when I disassembled it, but it was an awful greasy mess and I may have reassemble something wrong, or cracked one of the insulator pieces. Is there parts interchangeability for other Motors, so I can cast a wider Google for possible replacements?

Spokes · Post by **Spokes** » Sun Jun 23, 2013 7:33 am

I have rebuilt several starters...and never had a "rebuild kit"

Clean all the componants. Make sure the thrust washers are replaced exactly as originally assembled.

Use regular bearing grease for the grearbox. Do not over pack. Grease the shaft bushings lightly.

Clean the copper rotor and reassemble clean.

Larzfromarz · Post by **Larzfromarz** » Mon Jun 24, 2013 7:05 am

On starters I don't usually use a kit. I'll disassemble and clean as Spokes recommends
One BIG CAUTION;;; Don't use brake cleaner or similar solvents without testing first!
Armature wires are coated with a varnish to insulate the windings. Each wire is "insulated" from the rest of the windings ( you might think you are looking at bare copper but you are not it's clear varnish). Certain solvents dissolve the varnish and render the winding bad due to the windings now being shorted to each other. Same as letting the smoke out, no worky anymore. Same goes with charging or alternator windings.
I also replace the bearings from a local bearing supplier, remove the armature and chuck into a hand drill and use a 600 or greater wet and dry paper to polish the commutator. I then use a small pick to make sure the undercut (the space between the commutator segments) is sufficient to not short the comm segments.
One more additional caution- since you will be tempted to see how well the unit spins be very careful of backwards rotation- you can break or damage the brushes.
Also if you bench test use a fully charged battery and heavy gage wire to carry the current. If you think 12 or 16 gage wire has enough carry capacity it doesn't for this and your test will likely leave you in doubt.

Rocketsled · Post by **Rocketsled** » Mon Jun 24, 2013 3:58 pm

Larzfromarz wrote: Don't use brake cleaner or similar solvents without testing first!
Armature wires are coated with a varnish to insulate the windings. Each wire is "insulated" from the rest of the windings ( you might think you are looking at bare copper but you are not it's clear varnish). Certain solvents dissolve the varnish and render the winding bad due to the windings now being shorted to each other.

Uh oh. I used Kerosene for the bulk of the degreasing, but I wouldn't swear under oath I didn't use any Carb Cleaner.

There may be a donor starter in my future.

Foamy · Post by **Foamy** » Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:24 pm

Kerosene is fine. The solvent has to be pretty vicious to attack the integrity of the varnish and the only thing with kero is that it won't evaporate too well when blown off with an air gun which is really what you want. You don't want a kero residue remaining that dust/dirt or worse carbon can then stick too so take time to chase the kero out of any hiding places with compressed air if you have it.

Also polish the commutator with fine sand paper (for wood) and not emery cloth as we call it here (made for sanding steel). Emery cloth with scratch the commutator bars and also leave its particles embedded in the soft commutator that will chew through your carbon brushes.

I was an electric motor winder for 25 years, it paid well but was a messy and unhealthy way to make a living

Steve

Larzfromarz · Post by **Larzfromarz** » Tue Jun 25, 2013 5:40 am

I'd agree with Foamy (as a winder (lost art) he knows much better than I).
Mineral Spirits is pretty benign and won't hurt anything except you if you drink it.
The residue left by MS is not a bad thing either as it is a very light based oil.
I believe MS is just a bit more refined than Kerosene but is available everywhere (here).

Sam Green · Post by **Sam Green** » Tue Jun 25, 2013 7:37 am

Now that we all know how to clean out a starter motor,

back to the other question.

The motor can be run without the starter motor as long as you leave the large gear wheel in place on the crank.

Sam.

Larzfromarz · Post by **Larzfromarz** » Tue Jun 25, 2013 7:54 am

Thanks Sam...

Sam Green · Post by **Sam Green** » Tue Jun 25, 2013 8:41 am

I'll double check when I get home tonight, It's that long since I bothered with a starter (1967)

On the race motors, I run two inner crank seals and block off the oil hole that's in between them.

Sam.

Sam Green · Post by **Sam Green** » Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:40 am

Yes you can.

Sam.

Rocketsled · Post by **Rocketsled** » Tue Jun 25, 2013 6:52 pm

Sam Green wrote:Now that we all know how to clean out a starter motor, back to the other question.

The motor can be run without the starter motor as long as you leave the large gear wheel in place on the crank.

Sam.

Awesome, that's what I was hoping for. I'm aabout 1/3 of the way through paint, and 90% of the way through the Motor rebuild and the starter was something I was hoping I could put off...at least til I'm sorting for something to do next winter.